TfL appear to have begun public testing of the new online service for tracking buses via Countdown. The full list of Countdown locations was recently made available on the TfL website recently, giving an overview of where this is likely to prove a useful service.
As can be seen from the screenshot above, the service allows users to specify a street or postcode (as with the Journey Planner) and then select bus stops via a map. The live bus departure times (or rather those trackable via Countdown) are then shown. It's an interesting service and one which will likely prove popular.
The BBC also have an article up about the service (complete with guest quote from Diamond Geezer) and include the following comment from TfL:
A TfL spokesman said: "TfL has commenced user testing of the new 'countdown' system which will provide real bus arrival information for all 19,000 bus stops across London via the web and SMS.It seems likely that an official launch of the service will follow after this initial trial is complete. In the meantime, readers wishing to use it themselves can find it at http://countdown.tfl.gov.uk.
"The existing roadside sign service is currently limited to 2,000 bus stops and this new service covering all buses and all stops will launch fully in the autumn of this year."
Looks like it could be rather useful for the less frequent buses - as long as the data is reliable (unlike timetables for certain routes round here).
ReplyDeleteThe mobile site is excellent:
ReplyDeletehttp://m.countdown.tfl.gov.uk/
and the data is good too.
It's interesting to see TfL using what appears to be www.OpenStreetMap.org street mapping for the first time, AFAIK.
ReplyDeleteTfL seem to be using a variety of street mapping at present. They also have the yellowish street mapping used on Journey Planner and older bus spider maps, and the newer Legible London street mapping used on Barclays Cycle Hire docking stations.
I'll raise it here as well as on DG's site: when did the meaning of "due" change from "the time it should appear" (in the timetable) to "the time it will appear". Many departure screens seem to have complety transposed the meanings of "expected" and "due".
ReplyDeleteIf a train or bus "expected" 1930 is "due" at 1945, I would understand it to be running 15 minutes early, but it seems someone thinks it means the opposite.
I'm not sure what you mean Ti. "Due" in this sense is due in terms of the predictions that the countdown has been making. That seems a fair use of the word to me.
ReplyDeleteAnd due has 3 letters...
Timbeau, you contradict yourself. On your wording surely you mean due at 1930 and expected at 1945, to make it 15 minutes late?
ReplyDeleteThe first commenter has the best point.
ReplyDeleteThis is TfL.
Admittedly it isn't LUL, but ... can we trust or believe anything they say?
Given tube destination/time/departure displays ... NO!
They'll just lie, same as they always do.
'(or rather those trackable via Countdown) are then then shown'
ReplyDeleteAs They would say on Just A Minuet - Too Many 'Then's'
The normal meaning of "Due" is "required or expected in the prescribed, normal or logical course of events " (Chamers Dictionary) - "scheduled, appointed to arrive", as in "your rent was due on Friday". So "due" is only synonymous with "expected" if things are known or believed to be running on schedule. If it's delayed, it is no longer expected to arrive when it's due.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous: No, I haven't got it back to front: if a service is due (scheduled) to arrive at 1945, but is now expected to arrive at 1930, it's running early. But many operators - SWT for example - say expected (or "exp" - only 3 letters Dan!) for the scheduled time and "due" for the actual time the train will arrive. And now TfL seem to have caught the bug.
This is very welcome. No more half hour waits for the 276!
ReplyDeleteTimbeau: I know what you mean, but language means whatever the person trying to communicate means. You could say that a bus due to arrive at 1945 is now expected at 1930 (early), or a bus previously expected to arrive at 1930 is now due at 1945 (late).
ReplyDeleteOther examples: calling / stopping / terminating seem to be interchangeable sometimes;
"Good" service actually means "normal" service
"Part suspended" actually means "suspended". If the District line is partLY suspended between Earls Court and Wimbledon, then I would still expect to be able to make some of the trip, as only part of the line to Wimbledon is suspended.
But, anonymous, you do not succeed in your attempt to communicate if the person addressed attaches a different meaning to the word than the one you intended. It is the responsibility of the speaker to make sure his words cannot be misinterpreted.
ReplyDeleteSee the probably apocryphal story of the Yorkshire foreman who told his apprentice "Don't light fire while t' water's in boiler", and returned to find a boiler with a large hole burnt in the bottom.
To greg - as the original anon.
ReplyDeleteI had no reason to suggest wilful misleading, and knowing how the lu platform for matrix displays get their data feed wouldn't suggest the data is wilfully inaccurate either.
This is a question of data integrity as opposed to PR conspiracy. Predictions into the future can only be made on average past behaviour from a given point, so at times of disruption, the data is less likely to be accurate.
@ Greg - have you actually used the test Countdown system or are you just ranting? I have used it and I think it is pretty damn good. If you have used it and it was completely wrong then please share your experience.
ReplyDeleteThe waiting times are broadly correct - I came out of T Hale Station this evening, brought up the stop info and it said bus due in 3 minutes. It turned up after 4 mins so I'm not going to get upset about that. The sequence of departures was also correct.
Doing a quick test for buses going in the opposite direction - the timings and gaps between buses all looked pretty good to me.
There are a number of tweaks and changes that need to be made and I'm sure they will get sorted in due course or else the public will be advised how to deal with things like hail and ride sections where there are no fixed stops.
Overall this facility really is a huge improvement and should give people confidence in using the buses. The other side, of course, is that it will throw in stark relief those routes that don't run terribly well. That will create pressure to get them to work properly.
Some things in life are so predictable.
ReplyDeleteTfL test a new technology. Greg Tingey decries it as TfL lies and another poster moans about grammar and use of language.
If the new Countdown system is half as reliable as the London Reconnections comments board then it's going to be a great asset.
If the new Countdown system is half as reliable as the London Reconnections comments board then it's going to be a great asset.
ReplyDeleteIt's the circle of life my friend, and it rules us all.
That said, I'll shortly be making something officially public for you all which will shake things up a bit and explain why I've personally not been making many posts lately. I'm hoping you'll all like it.
Jon did you see my comment above?
ReplyDeleteAlso have some photos of the work going on at Whitechapel (Distric / H&C platforms etc). Will try and send them to you when I get a chance.
Just seen it. Corrected - Cheers!
ReplyDelete@Timbeau, apologies, I misread your first post. The concept of something running 15 minutes *early* must be what threw me! I agree with you, and hence retract my accusation about your original point!
ReplyDeleteAnon 08:57
plcd1 & a-nonny-mouse:
ReplyDeleteI don't usually bother with "countdown", but on the occasions I HAVE had to erm, "rely" on its "services" it has not told anything remotely resembling the truth.
And my cynicism regarding LUL's train-time/destination announcements/displays I don't want to go through again, or at least not right now.
But I will never forget the case of time-travel once displayed at KrapYrubsnif one night .....
( I have a photograph as proof - if others want a copy, I'll forward it to the blog owner, and he can decide whether to show it or not! )
How well will it handle cross-border routes? I notice TfL are using five-digit codes instead of the eight-letter ones the rest of the country is using.
ReplyDeleteOooh dear - if I post something I must be "ranting" must I?
ReplyDeleteWell, I have actually seen a "time-travel" display on LUL. Highly amusing and completely impossible!
And those times I have actually bothered to look at "countdown" (normally, I'm using buses at times and places where it isn't going to be necessary) it hasn't been at all accurate.
As a retired engineer, I expect things to, you know, WORK PROPERLY.
Brilliant - but no support for Hail and Ride sections so my turning up for my very local route will still be a game of chance.
ReplyDeleteThe new Tracker would be better than nothing if we hadn't already had Countdown (the equivalent NextBus is great in rural areas where the question is more whether there is a bus today at all) - and it's useful for checking before leaving home/office - but it doesn't really allow the snap decision most of us make about whether or not to leap on the first bus that pulls up just as we walk up to the stop. By the time you have called up the information on your phone the bus will have gone. It's also nowhere near as good for monitoring the relevant position of several buses and so refining your travel plans while you wait at a stop.
ReplyDeleteGreg, I've used it. It's useful and fairly acurate, obviously it's not magic, buses share the road so there will be an element of estimation. If you use a route that runs every 20mins, I'm thinking night buses, then knowing whether a bus is 30mins away or 5 can save valuble drinking time.
ReplyDeleteI'm a current LU Engineer, not sure why being an engineer helps gauge usefulness of the system either way actually. The people I've spoken too think its benficial, cant say fairer than that. Not 100%, but then what is?
CORRECTION
ReplyDelete(as it says sometimes)
I actually caught a 214 bus from outside KX this afternoon, and the Countdown was working as it was supposed to do.
Admitedly a first for me, but, give it its due, in this case it was doing what it said on the tin ....
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ReplyDeleteCan I just say that this blog is about Transport, not the intricacies of the English language?
ReplyDeleteAnd by the way, something big is coming your way very soon, which is why I've also been a bit quiet recently...
We at LR Towers have a little trick up our sleeve!
Interesting! Could it be a forum/message board? Have the LR team bought the old Post Office Railway to run as a compact competitor to the Central Line?
ReplyDelete