- Howard Smith, COO of TfL London Rail
"When they see the Roundel people expect quality. We thought hard about putting it on the Overground. We'll think hard about where it goes in future."
- Peter Hendy, London Transport Commissioner
In the first part of our series on the future of London Overground, we stepped back and took a look at how it all began. In our second, we looked at what the future holds for the orbital railway the London Overground has become.
In this final instalment, we take a look at something we touched upon briefly in both pieces - that the future of the Overground is as much a question of where TfL go next in their relationship with the DfT and other TOCs as anything else.
In Tango Clad
When looking at the London Overground, it is very easy to forget that beneath the orange paint and performance statistics still lurks that original, simple goal - to provide a coherently branded orbital railway that delivers at least 4tph peak service as a minimum across its length. In many ways the successful Concession system that emerged on the Overground was thus simply a means to an end - the best approach for a franchise that happened to effectively fit that model. That the concession system has proven to be successful is not to be denied, but proving its worth was never the primary goal of the exercise.
On first glance this may seem like a somewhat irrelevant point, but it is in fact one that goes to the heart of understanding what the Overground's future holds. For it is easy to look back on the last five years and see a progression of London's railway lines taking on a tangerine hue and extrapolate it forwards. The reality, however, is that all of those lines had some part to play in the establishment of the orbital, and all of them were lines that in some way TfL had gained a claim on as early as 2005.
Consistency London-wide
"It's not about some kind of power grab." Howard Smith, COO of TfL London Rail commented recently when an opportunity arose to talk to him about the future. "It's about saying 'Okay, what's the standard we want to see across London?' and seeing what needs to be done to meet that."
Just what that "minimum standard" means is something that once again the HLOS2 response helps us understand. There, we find six points that TfL consider should universally applicable:
- Service frequency – all stations should receive a frequency of service of at least four trains per hour throughout the week, wherever appropriate.
- Station ambience – all stations to achieve a standard for cleanliness and condition that is equivalent to that currently maintained by the Overground.
- Station staffing – this broadly translates to making sure that staff are visible and available at all times.
- Help Points and CCTV – All stations should be equipped with Help Points. CCTV should be provided offering pictures of a quality
sufficient to be used during court proceedings and be actively used to address anti-social incidents as and when they arise.
- Customer information systems at stations – All stations should be equipped with information systems that provide passengers updates in real time.
- Cycle parking – All stations should have cycle parking facilities
As Smith describes it, just as the initial objective with the Overground was to create the orbital railway, the objective for much of London's Rail now from TfL's perspective is to see the above achieved - it's not so much about expanding the Overground as it is about expanding the Overground experience.
Smith thus describes TfL's approach going forward as being based on a "ladder of involvement." Franchises will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, with TfL pushing to be involved as little or as much is necessary to achieve the above standard. The lowest level of that ladder might see TfL involved as a sponsor on station upgrades within a franchise, the mid-level might see TfL involved in the gating of stations, timetabling or rolling stock acquisition (the new Southern franchise being a good analogy here) whilst the highest level of involvement would be absorption into the Overground itself.
Achieving the Standard
In this light, its easy to see why TfL's HLOS2 response focuses as much on recommending improvements on lines that don't fall directly within the Overground's remit as it does on those that do (and is well worth reading for those recommendations alone).
Here, the response divides its comments into corridors, based on the general approaches the railways take to the capital.
A summary of most of those recommendations can be seen on the graphic above, but it is worth expanding on several which TfL consider key to London's Transport future (particularly issues of capacity).
Firstly, the partial four-tracking of the West Anglia Main Line to allow more frequent all-stations services to operate on segregated tracks between Brimsdown and Stratford. Secondly, TfL recommend the Lengthening of services that run fast between Bromley South and Victoria. Enhanced services on the Catford Loop in advance of completion of the Thameslink Programme are suggested, also serving Peckham Rye and Denmark Hill. Finally, Train lengthening and platform lengthening (where necessary) on various routes on the Essex Thameside, South Central, South Western and Great Western corridors is suggested.
Developing Devolution
Of course whilst the standards based, "hands off" approach may well prove the most common outlet for TfL in the world of surface rail, it remains the fact that at the top of the Organisation's "ladder of involvement" sits full-blown integration with the existing Overground network.
The need for that level of involvement may be limited, but that doesn't mean it won't potentially exist. There are several current franchises (or group-able parts thereof) that are not dissimilar to the devolved NLR in terms of London-specificity and which would arguably benefit greatly from a similar approach.
Standing proud amongst these is the Greater Anglia Franchise - specifically the Lea Valley lines and beyond. Sources suggest that some tentative discussion over TfL involvement here has already taken place.
It is also noticeable that this is one of the areas that gets a good amount of attention in the HLOS2 response. In summary:
- No additional infrastructure at Stratford, with committed investment
assumed to allow 6 tph to turn back from the West Anglia route
- New double track from the Temple Mills lines just north of the former Lea Bridge station to south of Tottenham Hale
- New single track through Tottenham Hale station to maintain
affordability of scheme by avoiding major bridge and platform works
- New double track from north of Tottenham Hale to south of Brimsdown
- Single track approach to new bay platform at Brimsdown
- Closure of level crossing at Northumberland Park station (Tottenham
Hale Gyratory scheme improves road access across the railway nearby
as well as the bridge at Leaside Road)
- New pedestrian access to Angel Road station from the south to serve
Meridian Water development site
- Enhanced turnback facilities at Seven Sisters to allow extra shuttle
service to operate
The rather large elephant in the room, of course, is the very question over whether the DfT will devolve further franchises to TfL at all. It's a question that TfL largely dodge in their HLOS2 response (you'll find one paragraph on it in the entire 77 page document), but one on which they've already come out swinging on elsewhere. There have been suggestions for some time that TfL have been pushing the DfT on the issue, with an internal report on the viability of devolution grasped firmly in hand.
A recent piece by Mark Hansford writing for NCE (although sadly behind the paywall) confirms this is in fact the case. In the piece, not only does Mike Brown, MD of London Overground and London Rail, openly confirm that such a report exists, but also that it clearly recommends the use of the devolved Concession model elsewhere in London or - at a bare minimum - joint TfL and DfT franchising. The piece also suggestion East Anglia as a potential battleground, and it is tempting to suspect that Brown may well have (explicitly or not) encouraged the use of that example.
Whether that is true or not, what is clear is that when it comes to the future of franchising, TfL are drawing up their battle lines and preparing to fight. With a government that (superficially at least) is committed to local devolution of services, questions over the franchise system being raised, key franchises soon up for grabs and the Overground standing as a shining example of a competent blend of public and private sector thinking, the time for TfL to grab back some control over franchising would seem to be at hand.
"You didn't expect us to, but we passed your little test," TfL seem to be beginning to say to the DfT, "so what are we going to do about it?"
Final Thoughts
Ultimately, it seems that the future of the Overground may not entirely be what some people suspect it will be. The success of the Overground so far does not necessarily mean that we will see vast new swathes of the transport map painted orange in the coming years.
What it does mean however, is that we may well see the tangerine creep outwards to the likes of Chingford, whilst Overground-level performance begins to become the rule on all other lines as well.
It seems that in Franchise terms, the future may well be bright, it just might not be as Orange as some people think.
Is there a specific reason Brimsdown was chosen as the prospective terminus for a Startford service? Is this down to a (lack of) availability of the previous 4 track alignment north of there or the level crossing for example?
ReplyDeleteThe service at Waltham Cross and Enfield lock isn't stellar either; political boundaries aside, Cheshunt would be the logical place to terminate a new inner-suburban service.
I believe that the level crossings have always been given as the primary problem, and whilst Brimsdown only leaves a couple up to Cheshunt...they're both crossings that will be VERY difficult to replace.
ReplyDelete...and please tell me the M25 bridge was built with spans wide enough...
I was surprised to learn that 4 tracking the WAML was possible, but looking at Google Maps it does seem relatively easy. The Brimsdown level crossing is relatively easy to remove as far as I can see. A new bridge over the South end of the station from Green Street to Dundee Way, through the bus turnaround point, knocking down the RipMax industrial building and over an industrial yard.
ReplyDeleteThe Enfield Lock level crossing is not easy at all (housing right up to the station, and I have no immediate suggestions). The 4 track formation is also lost to an industrial yard just north of Waltham Cross, but that is not a real problem. Finally, the M25 bridge from satellite view gives the impression it could be built with space for 4 track, perhaps a regular commuter could comment on that?
Wow, great series of posts, and I'm pleased you gave them priority.
ReplyDeleteOnce you've cleared up the backlog of other posts, can I also suggest you take look at the strategic planning process overall, including the purpose of the RUS? It's clear that capacity problems will still exist even after the improvements recommended by TfL (p42-43 of their HLOS2 response). Who is responsible to provide the strategy and vision to resolve these?
I'd venture that the fragmentation of responsibilities and lack of a coherent overview will very quickly push TfL into this space.
2021 is only 10 years away and problems are already clear, yet rail investment needs to be much longer-term. Several of your posts allude to this, so I think it's also worthwhile looking at the capability of the current process to provide an integrated and long-term view.
In answer to Mr JRT.
ReplyDeleteAerial photos show quite clearly, a FOUR span (2x2) M25 bridge....
Actually, the old Northern & Eastern (then GE, then LNER) line needs 3 or 4 tracks all the way to Broxbourne - and there IS space.
The difficult level-crossings are at Enfield Lock and Cheshunt as well as B'down.
However, the "difficulty" is MONEY, not the impossibility of putting a flyover in at each place.
Incidentally, you might need a turnback North-facing platform at Startford.
A lot of commuters from Enfield Lock & Turkey Street have commented on several occasions that they would like to see LO take over the Cheshunt and Southbury Loop services. The potential for cross London travel would make an excellent business case.
ReplyDeleteChingford services would be a fairly easy addition as the line is segregated for much of it's length up to Clapton. There is also potential for a junction to be built to allow Chingford services to access Stratford.
Will there be a Part 4?
ReplyDeleteRight now this is the concluding part.
ReplyDeleteThere are a couple of documents I found reference to in my research that aren't currently available to the public though, and if I manage to get hold of them (and if they add anything interesting to the picture) then I'll do a 4th.
Similarly, if there is a particular topic area people feel we've missed in this round up, but which deserves covering then I'm all ears.
Thanks for the posts. Suggestion: you could have held each one back for a few days, to let comments accumulate in one thread at a time? Now they're spread out a bit much.
ReplyDeleteAlso good for quieter patches of posting!
Briefly:
WAML - no mention by TfL of the Hall Farm curve to Chingford. Surely less work than widening up to Brimsdown? And a bit more useful?
Enfield Town - not worthy of a shuttle?
Stratford - can only 6tph be turned for the WA route? 8 would be better - 4 inner and 4 outer.
Queens Park - no mention of the vague proposals to stop London Midland trains there? Quicker into many West End places (and Canary Wharf maybe?) via Bakerloo than Euston.
Primrose Hill NLL line - not covered by TfL. Same with Watford Bakerloo.
Hackney Interchange - would love for this to be developed into a proper station.
Gospel Oak! No one mentions what would happen if GOBLIN was wired. 4 platforms, for through services? 4tph still turning in the current GOBLIN platform? Trains skipping Gospel Oak?
I wonder if this is mostly about tfl bidding their time? Currently, with the tube upgrade still in an intense phase and major work at Crossrail still to come they're kinda bogged down. However, from 2016/17 onwards they'll only be the Bakerloo and perhaps Piccadilly to finish off whilst Crossrail will be close to complete. Other major projects, such as Victoria's ticket hall, should also be concluded.
ReplyDeleteThey've always mentioned the potential of the rail network, and with CR2 mentioned again due to HS2 they might view the 2020s as the time to seriously go after surface lines with the tube sorted.
Btw, is there any possibility of them running the central/London sections of thameslink like RATP do with some of their RER lines?
I do think that the aim should be for 6tph wherever possible - 4tph is not in my opinion a turn-up-and-go service and compares very badly with tube services within greater london.
ReplyDeleteOn the NLL/ELL post someone left a comment about the possibility of a a Blackfriars to Loughborough Junction extension for the overground.
ReplyDeleteAnyone know anything about that?
Seconded - 4tph is rubbish. It will take time but I expect at least 12tph on every line in London. Just hope that the economy will improve and there will be lots of cash available and all of this can be finished before the next downturn!
ReplyDeleteI suppose TfL would have the right idea to build up what they have rather than go on a mad expansion craze. I'd like to see more congestion relief and more interchanges before they taken on more extensions.
ReplyDeleteThe ELL has the potential for more extensions, but taking it to Sutton or Bexleyheath or Hayes or whatever, would make the congestion in the central section much worse and if they did find more train paths, they ought to go to providing better frequency on its existing branches no?
And as for East Anglia, well I'd LOVE them to take it over. However, as part of the Overground... there isn't a single interchange with the Overground despite passing by the NLL, GOBLIN and ELL. So I hope TfL raise its standards, that NatEx looses the franchise and that some of it takes taken into Crossrail 2... but perhaps not take it into the Overground.
@JB
On one last subject, any talk of London Rail taking over Romford-Upminster and Greenford-WestEaling?
Wikipedia says that Ealing Council want to run the Greenford branch down the West London Line to Clapham, which could suggest turning it over to London Overground, and north to Ruislip which might make Chiltern Railways a better fit. Or why not let the District Line take it over? Of course, not much help if you like going to Paddington!
ReplyDelete(actually, a Heathrow-Gatwick service via Clapham would be appealling, whcih is more or less the same route)
@Anon 19:03
ReplyDeleteWell that's rubbish for a start. Where are the train paths between Greenford and the WLL going to come from? If if we have them, why waste them on that when they could go towards the Paddington terminators? It should just be a self contained TfL operated shuttle. Maybe it could be hooked up to something new when we built it, like a tram or something cheap.
Great Series!
ReplyDeleteI now understand why there is something called the London Overground and why the LO took over the ELL.
Howard Smith's comment about, "finding old bits you can reopen," seems so true to this long range observer. There appears to be soooo much rail infrastructure in and around London, the UK for that matter.
Pete In Denver
Other "blue sky schemes" -
ReplyDelete- The much-talked Canonbury->Finsbury Park->Highgate->[Muswell Hill or Mill Hill East]. Challenging, particularly for the required junction west of Canonbury. Former track bed has a couple of properties built on the Highgate->Muswell Hill section.
- Extending GOBLIN to Dagenham Dock or beyond - big money option would be a tunnel to Thamesmead/Belvedere or Dartford to improve cross-river connections in the area.
-Getting Ealing Broadway and/or Heathrow onto the network west of Willesden to provide interchange opportunities.
- Extending Clapham Junction services to East Putney or on to Wimbledon.
- Dudding Hill freight line with new stations for services from Richmond/Ealing/Heathrow to Cricklewood or via West Hamsptead and freight curve onto GOBLIN.
- South Acton onto Hounslow loop and from there to Staines and Heathrow via the Airtrack route - an Airtrack service without most of the level crossing concerns. Alternatively replace existing Waterloo services to free paths for Waterloo to run to Heathrow,
- Outer South London line, Clapham Junction to Crystal Palace.
- New Cross to Lewisham or Hayes (or Catford to allow Bakerloo scheme to use Catford->Hayes)
- Extend from West Croydon and Crystal Palace to take over Sutton Loop, improving service level and freeing up paths in the Herne Hill corridor
BTW, one of the solutions to the much-voiced problem with extending the ELL via Finsbury Park, the required junction/flyover west of Canonbury, would be to run Stratford services through to Finsbury Park and have ELL services take up the paths through to Willesden. With this we could get away with a flat junction, or maybe a much smaller single track flyover west of Canonbury for Westbound services.
ReplyDeletePossible service with this could be -
4tph Stratford->Finsbury Park->Highgate
4tph Stratford->Willesden->Clapham Junction
4tph New Cross->Willesden->Richmond
was the stratford-brimsdown route ever 4 tracked , or is the spare space either side abandoned sidings ?
ReplyDelete@Paul
ReplyDeleteWould any of those really provide value for money? What would the Finsbury Park route actually bring? What would be more helpful would be more interchanges;
Goblin;
-Tuffnel Park/Junction Road (Northern)
-Haringey Green Lanes (Piccadilly)
-Seven Sisters/South Tottenham (Victoria, East Anglia)
-Leytonstone/Leytonstone High Road when rebuilt for Crossrail 2 (Central)
-Forest Gate/Wanstead Park (Crossrail)
NLL;
-Hackney Central/Hackney Downs (East Anglia)
-Primrose Hill/Chalk Farm (Northern)
-West Hampstead Met platforms and quicker interchange (Jubilee, Metropolitan, Thameslink)
-Camden Road/Camden Town when latter rebuilt (Northern)
-Wilsden Junction low level (Southern)
-North Acton (Central & Crossrail)
-York Road/Maiden Lane (Piccadilly)
WLL;
-Earls Court development between EC and WK (District & Piccadilly)
ELL;
-Shoreditch High Street (Central)
-Loughborough Junction (Thameslink)
-Brixton (Victoria & Southeastern)
-Brockley low/high level (Southeastern and Thameslink platforms)
Some of these would be a lot cheaper than others of course, and some a lot more useful than others. But all should be achievable despite the distances in some cases (connecting tunnels, preferably with travelators, for the ones that stretch it such as York Road or Forest Gate.
But the point of an orbital railway is to interchange with the radial lines. The Overground has very few of these and really, the money should be spent on making the Overground as it is far better in that respect before it starts to take in more, usually radial, lines.
South of Brimsdown was 4-track for a long time, to allow segregation of freight heading towards Temple Mills yards.
ReplyDeleteThere were also wider sections - effectively long freight loops - North of B'down as well.
Other lines that would seem to fit the bill for LO here would seem to be the old Northern heights line into Morgate, or what about the Romford to upminster services?
ReplyDeleteAgain it just seems to depend on one question - 'Do TfL want to be in the business of running services outside greater London?'
This does however leave a lot of the south eastern services within their grasp as the services out to the coast could easily be split off from the two commuter loops and the lines to Hayes.
ELL interchange at Brixton looks so logical, at least on a map. There are just two problems. First, it would be very expensive as the ELL at Brixton is on a viaduct in a crowded town centre, so any interchange is bound to be very costly. And second, the Victoria Line at Brixton must already be at or near capacity for much of the day. It is already an exceedingly busy station.
ReplyDeleteSo while it's not impossible, there are great problems.
@bryn davies
ReplyDeleteWhich is why I propose to do the interchanges instead of new lines. It'll take a lot of money to fix LO's interchange problem.
@james
Forget it, people should stop dreaming about northern heights as if it is a easy modern solution to a modern problem. The route has been built on in parts (including a school) and the rest of the track bed is community path and part of a park. Rail enthusiasts vs community groups in affluent areas is not a fight you want to get into.
Besides, the current routing of the NCL makes sense as it provides relief to Kings Cross. It should have its own dedicated track between Finsbury Park and Alexandra Palace so there is a segregated, tube-frequency route going: Moorgate > Finsbury Park > Alexandra Palace > Enfield Chase > Hertford North > Stevenage. TfL could operate that no problem and if people complain about it going outside London, well to be honest who cares. 9/10 they'd be taking the line into London so the point is mute.
Moorgate services to the Hertford loop are going to be able to run independently between Finsbury PArk and Ally Pally, work to upgrade the necessary lines to passenger status and reinstate platforms is due during 2012/13.
ReplyDeleteYou know if LO operates Lea Vally services out of Stratford, it would be good when the double track to have the LO services cross to the western pair of tracks. That way LO services could turn west before Tottenham Hale onto GOBLIN. Then, after a stop at South Tottenham, they could turn north onto the Seven Sister's branch of the LV lines and head up that line to increase its frequency. That way the new LO Lea Vally services will gain extra LU and LO interchanges.
ReplyDeleteWould Gospel Oak to Stratford via South Tottenham be quicker? Might be an interesting route, if only for diversions?
ReplyDeleteOr the Brimsdown services could be NLL extensions from Stratford? might be better for platform capacity there?
Bringing the Overground to Finsbury Park via the Canonbury curve would presumably provide some relief to the Victoria and Northern City lines? As a Stroud Green resident I strongly agree that there would be a major kerfuffle if anyone tried to bring the railway back to the Northern Heights though. The former chairman of the (largely defunct) campaign group in favour of it supposedly received some very nasty letters from Muswell Hill residents accusing him of wanting to create a pipeline of riff-raff to their lovely urban village.
ReplyDeleteI’d be very keen to see the Northern City Line, and at least the inner suburban services as far as Alexandra Palace, brought under Overground control though. It’s very annoying that it closes so early (c.9:30) and at weekends.
Also agree that linking Harringay Green Lanes to the Piccadilly would be a boob (but presumably an expensive boon). And Tufnell Park/Junction Rd is a no-brainer.
"would be a boob". Hilarious typo, sorry.
ReplyDeleteWhile we're looking at route options around GOBLIN and South Tottenham, how about a Thameslink service to Tottenham Hale, using a reinstated curve at Kentish Town? Turns an orbital route into a radial route, and improves connectivity for GOBLIN.
ReplyDeleteThe idea above of Seven Sisters to South Tottenham to Stratford is interesting: it offers more route options but as you say it would need grade separation north of Coppermills Jn.
But, if there was some serious investment in new freight routes, how about a link north from Enfield Town to the ECML Hertford Loop at Gordon Hill? This would provide a direct freight route from the ECML avoiding the NLL, as well as new routes, e.g. Hertford-Enfield-Stratford. This would free up some capacity for passenger services on the 2-track section of the NLL through Hackney.
Shame they built over the end of the old route from Edmonton to Angel Road. They could have extended direct to the GEML.
My apologies, I ment Northern City Line not Norther Heights - my mind was elsewhere while I was typing....
ReplyDeleteMuch as I enjoy the fantasy lines discussions I think the really interesting thing about these excellent articles has been the way they show that the success of London Overground, taken with the success of the DLR and Tramlink, utterly vindicates the concession/contracting approach and makes it all but impossible for anybody other than a mindless, ideological twonk to dispute that concessions/contracts work and that franchises/PFIs are a complete failure. The illusion that government bodies can offload risk and cost by pretending that it is all somebody else's problem has been dispelled so many times that nobody has any confidence in franchising. TfL has clearly demonstrated that there is a better way that really works. This isn't about a shift in the balance of power between TfL and the DfT but a battle of ideas where it is clear that TfL has the more effective approach.
ReplyDeleteThe question asked is where TfL and the DfT go from here? I suspect many would like to see TfL take over more and more of the DfT's work just because they know that TfL "gets it" and the DfT still doesn't have a clue that there is an "it" to get. While that would be better than nothing, what we really need is a DfT that finally "gets it".
In essence the UK needs a DfT rebuilt as a national version of TfL, i.e. a body that actually takes responsibility for its responsibilities. No more stupid bus franchising where local authorities have to subsidise bus companies for almost non-existent services. No more stupid rail franchises where the risk and costs are only hidden, not reduced. We need a body that can impose a vision of success rather than give franchisees the freedom to faff about and fail.
I'll even bet most of the franchisees would be quite happy to give back their volatile, unpredictable, haphazard business models and replace them with simple, decent, honest contracting where they can make a nice, predictable, if modest, profit from doing what they are contracted to do properly within clearly defined parameters.
TfL has proved this can work three times over, that it can bring failing services back to full health, and do so at a relatively modest cost. It is time to roll this out to the rest of the UK.
@Anonymous 23:08
ReplyDeleteI must admit, that's the lesson I tend to feel really stands out from all this.
In terms of a "National TfL," I've always felt the DfT would be a far better place if it was a non-Ministerial Department.
It's a dead-end if you're a politician (unless you're a Lord and thus don't give a damn about getting elected) because no transport project can be completed in one parliamentary term.
You can probably count the number of twentieth century politicians who have actually wanted that job on one hand.
The DfT, more than pretty much any other Department, screams out for a Technocrat in the top spot.
Also, for the record, TfL claim you'd save close to £300m if you ran the London suburban franchises as concessions instead.
ReplyDeleteThat's a LOT of cash, so I'm doing some digging at the moment to see if I can find out a bit more about that, and a bit more about what that NERA report they commissioned actually said about Devolution.
I'll write it all up if I can get some sources to confirm that it says what my research suggests it says.
Don't forget Merseyrail.
ReplyDeleteWhich is, effectively another concession (even though it's labelled as a "franchise".
And, what a suprise, DafT don't like them either, because they make it work, at a lower cost, and have sensible expansion plans.
And a track-record of making past projects work.
(Electric trains to Chester from Liverpool, for instance)
I see a "National TfL" or "Dft separated" as being like granting the Bank of England power over interest rates. The problem is that the body to devolve power to doesn't exist yet. It would also require cross-party support. Despite that, it is the right solution, as are concessions instead of franchises. I'm looking forward to hearing more about the £300m savings too.
ReplyDeleteChristian Wolmar repeatedly asks the question 'what is rail franchising for?' No-one has ever answered that, they have just gone on trying to endlessly fiddle with the model in order to squeeze some non-existant magic out of it. However, there is another dimension beyond franchising/concessions. Regional government has generally excelled at promoting and providing public transport (everywhere in the world!). Localism (scaled up) really does work in this area, because that is the normal scale of the most frequent journeys. Having my (Hampshire) rail requirements 'planned' by a national organisation (DfT or Network Rail) is just plain barmy. Leave intercity to a national body. Devolve everything else!
ReplyDeleteDifferent topic, but relevant to the article: The reinstatement of the Hall Farm curve has been mentioned many times as a way of allowing people in Waltham Forest to reach Stratford. That's a non-radial route that is increasingly needed to reach work in Docklands and shopping at Straford. Perhaps TfL thinks that 4tph Brimsdown-Stratford with Victoria Line interchange at Tottenham Hale will fill that gap. However, it really would only serve Walthamstow Central. People from the Chingford direction would have to change twice (from either bus or train)to reach Stratford (three times to reach Docklands). My rail atlas shows me that carriage sidings once existed north of Wood Street, so perhaps there is room for turnback sidings there if 4tph Stratford all the way to Chingford is thought to be excessive.
ReplyDeleteHall Farm curve
ReplyDeleteWas in one of the last BR Acts (I have a copy) - killed by privatisation.
No room @ Wood Street - the land was sold off for housing long ago.
Doesn't matter though since the standard service is 1/4-hourly, you could EASILY go over to a train every 10 minutes Chingford - Hall Farm, with the onward services splitting there.
This would actually INCREASE capacity between Clapton Jn & Liverpool Street - a desireable outcome.
In fact a win-win-win situation.
Which is wh DafT won't countenance it, of course ....
@ john bull, and also acknowledging the excellent anonymous comment 21 July 2011 19:29.
ReplyDeleteAs a focus for some future posts, can I suggest that you dig into these issues of governance, strategy and the roles and relationships of TfL and DfT? And along with this an exploration of the concession vs. franchise models?
Can I also make a plea for a look at HS2, especially with the deadline for the public consultation being Fri 29 July? As the evidence against this project mounts, we should not assume it is, or should be, a foregone conclusion.
The relevance for London rail is not just in the nuts and bolts of route, interchanges etc. It is simply that if HS2 goes ahead it could soak up the bulk of the investment pot and leave little else for other rail investment that we sorely need.
thanks Greg Tingey. I think your point about privatisation killing off the Hall Farm curve reinstatement reinforces the point made in this Overground pt3 article about the dire need for London to grab accountability for all London transport systems. Remember, there was a sort of 'regional' focus before John Major fouled up our railways, it was BR's Network Southeast. TfL direct responsibility for London rail, in whatever guise, would enable these issues to be raised and debated in London. It's just simply not a central government issue.
ReplyDeleteYou are right about a the splitting of Chingford services at Hall Farm relieving the other West Anglia lines into Liverpool Street. It's an amazingly simple win-win. The only argument against might be from City commuters from the Chingford line. I've never experienced peak mornings into Liverpool Street, but I imagine the trains are as crammed as most other City routes.
As the 315's on the Lea Valley Lines (and I suppose the 317's) must be near the end of their lives, then this may be a good time to re-draw the Greater Anglia franchise, hand over Enfield/Cheshunt/Chingford to LO from 2013, and solve the Bombardier problem by placing a huge order for 4/8 car 378/9's!
ReplyDeleteCouldn't they run into Liverpool Street via Stratford? Or at least 2tph via Stratford, 2tph via Clapton?
ReplyDeleteWould definitely allow more trains through to Tottenham (2tph would need to stop at Clapton I imagine!)
Excellent set of interesting articles.
ReplyDeleteI can't see why such a desire for the NXEA routes to be taken over as they are tied into the overall route to Cambridge and there is little or no separation. Additionally they cannot be extended into the current network.
The South London Metro services are very different.
Taking South-Central - all stopping services north of Croydon and Sutton could be taken over by LOROL. Plus gaining control of the Wimbledon loop trains.
Trains going south of East Croydon all could travel on the fast lines and LOROL taking over stoppers means that an excellent excuse for rebuilding East Croydon and Windmill Junction. Adding two platforms on the wasteland west of platform 1 - mean the new platforms could be northbound fasts, 1/2 be Southbound fasts, 3/4 become East Grinstead/Caterham/Tattenham trains off the fast lines from London and 5/6 become terminators for LOROL services.
The only track shares would need to be trains going south from Sutton to Guildford, Epsom Downs or Horsham. As these need to share tracks to where they could be routed onto the main lines.
One significant point made in this article was that although there may be good reasons for extending the Overground set-up to more lines, there are also other ways of obtaining better services for Londoners and those who work/visit there. TfL specifying the services, standards, and infrastructure changes (just like Strathclyde PTA around Glasgow)would be certain to better than the current set-up. The latter is there to squeeze the most out of a rigid model. That model is mostly based on one franchisee utilising each terminal station, with operational efficiency perfection as the ultimate nirvana. It just about totally ignores the fact that there is a massive city there which needs a fully integrated (and unified) public transport system. TfL has made great strides: taking back the Tube PFIs; getting Oystercard to work on all tubes, buses and light rail; getting Crossrail underway (which takes over two of the sought-after radial routes), getting an orbital railway going (Overground) and the latest step towards integration - extending Oystercard to surface rail. Just one last effort will do it!
ReplyDeleteI can't see why such a desire for the NXEA routes to be taken over as they are tied into the overall route to Cambridge and there is little or no separation. Additionally they cannot be extended into the current network.
ReplyDeleteOf course they can. All the "mainline" needs is the tracks between Liverpool St and a pair of "fast" lines up from Stratford to Broxbourne. Everything else is up for grabs by LO, though only the (new) slow lines north of Stratford easily fit into LO as an extension from there (including Chingford). In an ideal world, I'd stick in a new bit of SSL tunnel between Moorgate and Liverpool St. and up to Hackney Downs so the H&C could take over the services terminating at Enfield and Cheshunt/Broxbourne.
Taking South-Central - all stopping services north of Croydon and Sutton could be taken over by LOROL. Plus gaining control of the Wimbledon loop trains. Good candidates.
Trains going south of East Croydon all could travel on the fast lines and LOROL taking over stoppers means that an excellent excuse for rebuilding East Croydon and Windmill Junction. <snip> As these need to share tracks to where they could be routed onto the main lines.
I'm not sure about your plans...
..but I'd also suggest new platforms on the wasteland to provide 8 through lines (increasing capacity there), and additionally, new terminating platforms on the rest of the wasteland and a fly over/dive under north of East Croydon.
I'd add a 6th track down to South Croydon, and add the necessary fly overs or dive unders for LO to take over the Tattenham Corner and Caterham branches.
Could extra platforms be built on the wasteland next to East Croydon station? Two objections come to mind
ReplyDelete1) isn't the land up for development?
2) in order to make them through platforms, you'd have to tunnel under the road, thereby undermining the foundations of the tall building on the opposite side of the road!
(But all joking aside, the station needs the extra capacity. At the very least have a couple of "through" lines without platforms)
1) isn't the land up for development?
ReplyDeleteDon't know. Ruddy well shouldn't be until they investigate possible railway use...
2) in order to make them through platforms, you'd have to tunnel under the road, thereby undermining the foundations of the tall building on the opposite side of the road!
Sorry, yes.. I've written this in several places recently...but losing one building (that could be rebuilt over the lines) is a small price to pay for more lines at South London's primary railhead.
6th track south of East Croydon would involve widening a deep cutting. Also Tattenham Corner is currently a fast train, both are in the peaks and both lines sit better with the Redhill services than Inner Suburbans. Some new flyovers north of EC would be good. I keep looking at the area when I go through to work out how to do it.
ReplyDeleteMr_jrt NXEA routes – fair point. I’m not that knowledgeable on the the Chingford/Hackney/Enfield lines – could this be easily done creating a new fast separated route from London to Broxbourne with NXEA responsible for all services north of Broxbourne via this route. If so takeover becomes logical but if it means digging new tunnels and routes then probably isn’t.
ReplyDeleteEast Croydon – for the separation of the fast lines at Windmill junction you would only need a new flyover for the Southbound from Victoria to clear the London Bridge Lines and as this line starts higher it would be quite easy to do – probably following the slow lines down. It would be good to six track from Windmill junction to East Croydon so the Victoria and London Bridge Fasts can be kept separate plus two slow lines but this may be tricky as it means rebuilding two road bridges and demolishing some local housing.
I don‘t think a flyover or dive under would be necessary if you have four slow line platforms as the middle two could be used for terminators.
I don’t think it practical for LO to go South of East Croydon and these routes should be left with the South Central franchise.
Anon 21:19 – what tall building – there is plenty of room next to the car park south of East Croydon station and the Northbound platforms could probably start a bit further North than the Southbound – especially with the new entrance being built at the North end of the station. I suspect some work would be needed on the road bridge under west side of the station.
The cutting South of East Croydon is probably very costly to change which is why I am suggesting two platforms on the fast lines for both Northbound and Southbound and then merging to two tracks south of the platform. This means one train can be pulling into the platforms as a second pulls out thus increasing capacity.
Loo-Roll could EASILY go South of Croydon for specific local services.
ReplyDeleteCaterham and Tatenham Corner respectively.....
But NOT for Oxted line or Sarf of Purley, either!
Seriously.
Services FOR Loo-Roll, working clockwise from the river.
Dartford, yes; possibly Gravesend?
Sevenoaks via Bat-&-Ball.
Orpington.
Hayes.
Ex-LBSC lines as above.
Epsom - or Dorking for end-of-LOROL services??
Chessington Sarf, Hampton Court, Kingston Roundabout-&-Shepperton, Hounslow Loop; Windsor??
Reading locals ?
Inner Thameslink ?? Dubious this one, but it WOULD mean integration.
There is STILL the problem of the remains of the Tooting-&-St Helier loops services.
Where to stop on the ex-GN lines?
Welwyn is obvious, but Hertford N or Stevenage-via-Watton?
Hertford East.
Chingford.
Shenfield & Hutton.
Hand over ENTIRE ex-LTSR to LOROL ??
Many would require careful negotiation with the external-to-London local authorities, but models already exist for this re. Amersham and Merseyrail.
Interesting.
My solution for the Thameslink/LO divide is to extend the freight lines from Hendon to St Albans. I don't think it'd bee difficult, the only major infrastructure would be the new tunnel between Borehamwood and Scratchwood.
ReplyDeleteWith those lines extended, LO can operate between St. Albans and Cricklewood (and down the Dudding Hill route), or West Hampstead, where it'd either terminate, or you'd need a new tunnel to Gospel Oak to link to the Goblin, though perhaps the alternative of linking to West Kentish Town (with an interchange at Gospel Oak) might be better (in network terms), with the NLL running through to the Goblin.
...anyway. With the local service south of St Albans handled by the new LO service, Thameslink gains *lots* of capacity by running fast to West Hampstead...and the corresponding capacity on the new local lines enables more local stations to open. I can think of a few off the top of my head:
1. Napsbury
2. Colindale (either around the RAF Museum, or at a new Northern Line interchange between Colindale and Hendon Central)
3. All three of Cricklewood, Hendon AND Brent Cross
4. Minster Road (between Cricklewood and West Hampstead)
...and if the private railway companies could manage to widen the cutting south of East Croydon from 4 to 5 tracks 80-90 -odd years ago...I'm sure we could easily manage a 6th today.
As for East Croydon...whilst teh best location for the terminating platforms is indeed in the middle...through capacity is too valuble to waste here, so sticking them on the wasteland which has no possibility of through lines makes much more sense. An extra pair of through platforms is the minimum...ideally you'd try to squeeze a couple of non-platform through lines in too...but as most stuff stops anyway, these aren't essential.
On East Croydon, yes they should 6-track through to South Croydon, probably adding a track on the east side. The alignment exists anyway through East Croydon station, and there were originally seven tracks under George Street bridge. You could build a new platform on the east side as well as some terminal platforms. But you'd lose the timber-built South Croydon station building... perhaps it could be dismantled and moved to a heritage line somewhere?
ReplyDeleteYes they'd need to widen north, and reconfigure around Windmill Junction, with more grade-separation and a segregated route into the new terminal platforms at East Croydon. So a big project, but worthwhile.
If TfL got stuck in and created a metro service on lines north, East Croydon would be a good terminal point, but so also would be West Croydon, with opportunity to expand terminal platforms where the sidings were on the north side. Both stations are well-linked by tram.
ATOC also proposed options to alleviate capacity problems on the Brighton Line itself, one of which was to direct more services through Horsham via Sutton. This route has potential to be much better used, and could be faster, for instance if Mitcham Junction was rebuilt to straighten the route, as there is no longer a junction with the Tramlink route.
I think any realistic proposal for the Northern Heights would have to terminate at Highgate or somehow continue to Mill Hill East. Restoration to Muswell Hill is probably fantasy land as that's the built-over plus local opposition section.
ReplyDeleteSouth of Highgate on the other hand, the route is intact and the areas, whilst not particularly impoverished, are hardly for the most part 'affluent'. The parkland walk itself is well known locally as a haven for muggers, with few people daring to venture along it outside daylight hours. I can't see it being missed by many.
The key benefit is relief of the Northern for folk heading East to docklands, which is why a Stratford service would make the most sense.
Paul, Stroud Green is the area between Finsbury Park and Crouch end, covering much of the Parkland Walk. It is pretty afluent on the qwhole. And if you went on Stroudgreen.org and told them that they didn't value the Parkland Walk and would be happy for the railway to return, you weould receive a violent response. I've tried it myself. It's heavily used by locals, only a minority of whom are flashers, rapists or muggers. Sadly there would be a huge fight to conserve it.
ReplyDelete"...beneath the orange paint and performance statistics still lurks that original, simple goal - to provide a coherently branded orbital railway that delivers at least 4tph peak service as a minimum across its length."
ReplyDeleteReally John? When will TfL achieve the 4 trains per hour goal on the Watford-Euston line of LO, particularly that part north of Harrow & Wealdstone? Still only a train every 20 minutes up there, even at rush hours.